Looks like you now have your grinchmas. What a holiday bonus.

Ruffcut said "Looks like you now have your grinchmas. What a holiday bonus."

Yep... The 18+ year economic boon has about basis in reality as your old man in the red suit arriving on your roof via one red-nosed flying reindeer and several other flying reindeer and then slithering up and down your chimney to deliver gifts. Grinch has it correct... Hey J6P, times are tough and the economy and/or companies do not owe anyone a job...

If only people would stop lying about ALL of this **** for change... lay-offs should be related to a business need... not some "Holiday."

1) Lay-off before Holiday - I can't believe my boss laid me off just before the holiday or...

2) Lay-off after Holiday - I can't believe that my boss laid me off after the Holiday, now that I have all these Holiday bills to pay... Whatever!

"If only people would stop lying"

THAT one has also been mentioned more than a few times by our host here.
I recall the video "what is it with....."

This time a LOT of folks worldwide are going to pay for the lies, both past and on-going.

OT sort of:
I'm in manufacturing. Talked to a friend Saturday who works for a "competitor". We've both seen tens of millions in projects cancelled and/or put on indefinite hold. We shall both see co-workers, friends, and possibly ourselves in the BLS U-6 numbers very soon.

Thanks for the REAL news Karl.

Johnny_crab: Being part of U-6 is a horrible idea at least here in continental Europe with badly functioning labour markets.

If you somehow aren't able to [compulsively] tailor your brand according to the labour market's expectations you very easily end up down Barbara Ehrenreich's road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_and_....

I suppose this will be the fate of an increasing number of people on both sides of the pond as well as everywhere else.

Life's hard and then you die.

Newsflash - the "consumer" is about 70% of our economy. Do the math.
Equities? Sold to you!

I guess the Canadian job losses announced today of 70,000 is just a drop in the bucket but considering we have 10% of US Pop. it translates to the equivalent of 700,000 lost US jobs. I figure we are now entering the twilight zone and not one single political or Economic leader has a clue what to do. We had been doing quite well in job creation until the last 2 months but the speed of the current decline is what is going to catch everyone unprepared. Boy am I glad I have been at this site for the past year plus. At least I am somewhat prepared but I don't think anyone, especially J6P, is aware of what is about to happen. Can't wait for the year end ticker!!!!!

anecdotal reports from clients, (solid citizens not fxck-wits). bulldozer operator told me that a huge commercial venture between charlotte and concord nc, that was a venture of 6 commercial realestate companies, with 13 months worth of earthmoving and excavation was just cancelled flat. they came up to them last friday and told them the project was cancelled. he guessed they had spent more than 10 million on the earthmoving alone.

another client, employed at freightliner for 28 years, never laid off before. laid off and told that the company was probably going to close down the operation.

another client, employed as a production supervisor at wix corp., getting only 16 hr weeks for the last month. and at a meeting yesterday was told that if they received no january orders from the big 3, they would be forced to file and shut-down operations.

The many lies also created many jobs... The lies about the economy AND the ones about Santa...

Wages are crazy high for the actual output... except maybe in the trenches retail and hospitality which are underpaid.

Housing is housing... the economy crashed a "long time ago" but they tried to "fix it" by increasing the period on home loans. Borrowing on the future... hoping for a time when they can handle this economic "nuclear waste." They also began to long term finance cars, boats and daily FOOD... I remember that I said at the time credit cards could buy groceries "WTF! How does that solve the problem?"

Other countries, say okay, we'll tap that... AND the US belief in Santa. US citizens have a nice excuse to spend more money around the time the economy normally would take a dump (than they could actually pay back.)

Most who were a good bet for loans are close to tapped out and/or spending less. Unenforced regulation allowed for "crazy" financing that created fantasy lifestyles, fantasy ability to pay and fantasy jobs. Ho Ho Ho!

The US children, now adults, were taught that it is okay to believe in lies AND teach others to lie (Santa, Prince Charming to the rescue etc) since there are always gifts. How could that be bad? Parents want to keep lying... As a redneck with two or more inflatable Santas in his yard says... "It is just plan evil and un-American NOT to believe those lies about Santa!!!" How is that any different than the economy... humm?

Debt cannot be "fixed" with more debt... the lie and debt created jobs are going, going, gone so welcome so many to the U-6 club. The US people are so caught up in their own world that as long as they still have a paycheck, they don't give a **** where it comes from or how it started. Anyone loudly mouthing the fact that there even was a problem got blacklisted.

My job in the 90s involved exposing some of the bull**** - What I got was "don't rock the boat," accused of being an "on my back" dumb blond, fired and then subsequently blacklisted.

For all the **** I took for trying to be the bearer of bad news only to be told by Elmer Fudd to - "AW SHUDDUP" - Welcome to my world.

Self-employed - no one subsidizes your health insurance and there are no paid days off.

Actually, layoffs in early to mid December is the most humane.

I have 4 kids and got canned prior to Christmas a few years back. It was a bummer, but at least I didn't spend $1500 on plastic crap for the kids.

Forget Tin Hats, Axes to grind and family...
All you really need in life is a Tin Cup, an Organ and a monkey.

Ever read a book by Jeremy Rifkin (circa '96)called "The End of Work?" He talks about a new sector for the economy called the "Volunteer Sector," where you essentially work for food.

Rifkin be one of those Wharton professor types.

Yeah, I just don't get this spend our way out of this mentality. I guess these people are the same as all the others that got us into this mess, i.e. can't stand to live in a world with consequences as it instantly leaves them at a disadvantage.

Surely an honest bit of capitalism which would involve pain for the bad actors gets us all out of this quicker, fresher and in a more honest fashion. Why the hell should the prudent bail out the brainless.

Daozenrod,

Sure is tough to "income tax" an actual "will work for food" type... Come to think of it, that would be an interesting way to protest. Be careful though, they might get a head tax slapped on them... If it were me, I'd "will work for food" outside a health food store.

Regarding your Fresnel... I have a small military grade one... cool! I mean hot... really really hot!

Crow said "Why the hell should the prudent bail out the brainless."

The prudent become like the brainless by
1) voting in retards based on TV coverage
2) working in a job that was created on account of the brainless, fraud debt and liars and then lose their job AND then do nothing but sit there and cry about it?
3) watching TV instead of protesting this ****

Congress and assistants who listen, read the email, see taxpayers in person get paid to do so while WE do not... they have no problem listening but they will win by the big "$cha-$ching" of taxpayers dollars that continues whilest they are on duty... listening but doing nothing with the information. Meanwhile, you just waste your day... been there, done that.

The powers that be have an agenda to tap everyone out regardless... No one listens, no one cares, not enough people dare challenge it.

The "prudent" may have a job that was created by the deceptions, lies, frauds etc... and in that case the prudent also benefited from this mess (not as much possibly as most but benefit anyway)....

Workers are not so much currently "harmed" by losing jobs based on lies as they are instead no longer benefiting from the job that was created by the deceptions... Where would they have been without all the garbage that got us to this point? I suppose they would not had to pay through the nose for a house and mortgage? What about earning capacity?

They might be a farmer or a delivery person instead of appliance maker, automaker etc because the demand (without credit) would be much less for the appliances and cars etc. Fewer "Jobs." More mom and pop and self-employeds. A hellava lot less home owners. Just an insane thought.

Deejunk,

That would be a very John Galt turned open-source "progressive" counter-attack approach. Giving it away for free makes it useless to the Pigmen--Pigmen need to be able to control deployment and use, because they certainly cannot compete with free--wanting no part of free nothing. (set top boxes return)

Economists don't come up with new stuff, they just rehash and rename stuff, just as Hollywood films the same crap over and over again. The various "-isms" are just renames, updated slightly. If an economist has a "new" idea, it probably came from Farmer John or Billy Bob. The economist only translates pure notions into Pigman and finds a way to make it crooked. 7 good years, 7 bad years....original plan didn't have slavery in it at all, hence Joseph and the Pharaoh were the original Kosher Pigmen.

Volunteer Sector, CCC, debtor prison and all that are just terms for the "poor house." Galbraith was just a rehash of Veblen, for the most part--but he updated the games that people play. Rifkin and others followed. But when crisis comes, the POLs like to shell back to something that someone tells them sort of worked long ago. (excepting pure uncut honesty.)

Spend our way out is going to land us in an imminent bond dislocation and ultimate debt default.

The lack of political will and the general public ignorance of our current bailout nation strategy gives me little hope.

Especially with Barney and Dodd running wild in Congress...

new kid on block
can i post yet

breaking news

santa lays off 6000 elves
christmas cancled

paulson is the grinch

I noticed at the Christmas parade yesterday the Santa float was shy two reindeer - oh the irony!

So if the last number I could find published for my county was 10.3% in September what is it really? (No, I really don't want to know).

Odd thing is commercial building here just keeps going full speed ahead (which just doesn't make any sense with the rest of the country). Problem is most of the building is being done by out of state contractors where they ship in their crews, instead of hiring locally. In the retail sector, the stores are opening still, (with skeleton crews) but all the office space remains vacant, and they just keep building more. I'm really trying hard to understand this County but I can't make heads or tails of it.

Land already bought, contracts for construction already signed, existing deals not easily withdrawn without penalty. They kept building new residential here a good 6 - 12 months after all the for sale and for rent signs went up. We have quite a bit of empty commercial, especially hotels.

Thewad wrote:

Quote:

I guess the Canadian job losses announced today of 70,000 is just a drop in the bucket but considering we have 10% of US Pop. it translates to the equivalent of 700,000 lost US jobs. I figure we are now entering the twilight zone and not one single political or Economic leader has a clue what to do.

Given recent events, I'm not even convinced they are even aware of the severity of the problem. The bottom line is that we (Canadians) are now faced with nothing happening until late January. Is there any hope they will get a clue by then?

Remember a few years ago when the Labor Dept tried to reclassify fast food workers as "manufacturing jobs"?

Swarf Maker, Assume you were a machinist if you even understand what swarf is!!!I have been a strong supporter of Harper but he really ****ed me of with this latest idiocy and I sent him E-Mail to let him know how I felt. It is going to be a really cold next 6-8weeks until we find out what we are going to bail out. Hopefully they will listen to the public who are saying loud and clear--
NO BAILOUT!!!
When I said we are entering the twilight zone I really meant that things are going to get so bad here that a drunken stupor may be preferable to what we are going to get. I like the condition of our banks but the rest is going to be a mess.

Thewad:

I am a hobby machinist. In real life I am a semi-retired electrical engineer (electronics test) who discovered The Market Ticker much too late. It has been one hell of an education. Thanks Karl.

I have a healthy contempt for politicians of all stripes. I think Harper demonstrated abysmally poor judgement in doing nothing in response to the state of the economy and instead doing the one and only thing guaranteed to unite the opposition. On the other hand, Dion demonstrated why he should get out of politics ASAP.

As far as the state of Canadian banks is concerned, I'm not so sure. I had a brief scan of the bank act and it would appear they should not have been involved in the derivatives - but then regulation in this country is pretty lax and our banks have been operating in the US. Also, we have had CMHC buy about $100 B in mortgages, the accounting rules have been changed to allow banks to hide losses, and the government is guaranteeing inter-bank loans. Those suggest that Canadian banks have been involved in the greedy mismanagement - but to what extent.

I've heard from several high ranking salary guys that they can't retire now. guys like police officers with 30 years on...they won't retire. thirty years of collecting pension IOU's, and they still found a way to run amok in the real world.
that keeps younger, harder working guys making less at security jobs. this all has a trickle down effect. even NPR was talking about it tonight. interesting how the ticker community is always out there first!